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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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hello and welcome to the skeptic zone

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episode number 213 for the 17th of

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November 2012 Richard Saunders here with

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you from a look at the window overcast

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sydney australia on this week's show we

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take a sort of a relaxed a relaxed view

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the relaxed report from tam in las vegas

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yes folks i kid you not there are still

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tam interviews may not dead yet to play

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now the ones on today's episode happened

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at the meet and greet so maynard talks

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to all sorts of people a very relaxed

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sort of atmosphere and discovers why

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they go to the amazing meeting now

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amongst the people may not talks to our

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robert blaskowitz and Eve Siebert who

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are there to talk about skepticism and

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the humanities more great memories from

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the amazing meeting coming up at the top

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of the show and following that it's a

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sort of a special doctor rachy reports

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now dr. Reggie together with our very

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own Joanne Ben amoud two of the great

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reporters for the skeptic zone from time

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to time we're invited to a an

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interesting talk complementary medicine

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cure or quackery now this was held in

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Sydney just a few nights ago he was put

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on by the wall / jewish hospital and

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also featured former australian skeptics

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president are dr. richard gordon who is

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a general practitioner dr. Jason Kaplan

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who is a specialist cardiologist

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physician and practitioner of

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integrative cardiology and Theresa

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Mitchell patterson a naturopath it was a

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very interesting talk and I catch up

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with dr. Richie just before the talk and

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Joanne been amoo and then once again

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after the the evening a long chat with

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her dr. Richie to get her impressions a

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special dr. Reggie reports with giant

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been amoo discussing their night talking

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about complementary medicine but before

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we get into all that I'm going to give

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you a short report about the recent

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mind-body-spirit festival here in Sydney

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or as main body what as we call it now

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as many of you know I've been going to

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these sort of things for many many years

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it's interesting to see how they change

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over the years new things come in old

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things go out things like crystal power

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and aura photography and psychic

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readings that they're pretty common now

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I've got a some nodes here from my

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recent adventure and mind body spirit as

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I walked around I was struck I always

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take note of how many people are there

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giving medical advice or are they pseudo

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medical advice normally it involves

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being hooked up to various computerized

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machines with funny readouts find out

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what's wrong with you I you're deficient

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in this or I you've got this problem but

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they can always sell you the cure right

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there and then it's very convenient but

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always strikes me there's a lot awful

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lot of pseudo medical advice or medical

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advice one wonders being given out by

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people who aren't doctors who don't have

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medical qualifications but that's a very

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common feature amongst these pseudo

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medical practitioners are people who

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will test you for allergies using

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machines with dials and levers and all

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sorts of things and I watched one of

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them and they seem to have vials of

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homeopathic medicine next to them and

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they put those through the machine

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somehow and tested you by putting

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electrodes on your skin it all seems

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pretty dodgy to me but I was glad this

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year I was glad not to see anybody doing

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the applied kinesiology body tricks like

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Power Balance used to do and lately Suzy

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and other products so they were pretty

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absent but there were still people there

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doing applied kinesiology sort of in a

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different way on a bed this time and

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I've got other brushes here I've picked

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up kinesiology is very popular free

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kinesiology course valued at four

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hundred dollars attend a free weekend

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workshop

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there's another one here from the

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College of kinesiology Australian

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College of kinesiology mastery who what

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sorts of things you can do there with

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kinesiology and one guy interests me

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very much he was there doing kinesiology

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coupled with something I've seen before

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many years ago called reset this is

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where you adjust the jaw and apparently

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that's going to fix up your body I've

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got this guy's flyer right in front of

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me kinesiology I'm skeptical it says a

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fascinating experience with Philip

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Rafferty and it goes on and on it's not

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very skeptical I must say this this a

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little bit of information now this guy

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was interesting because he was holding

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up color cards in front of the faces of

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people then testing amusing his

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kinesiology his muscle testing so

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needless to say folks I was mm-hmm

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somewhat skeptical one of the things

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this year that interest me very much was

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the number of psychics as I walked

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around as I walked past various stalls

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who recognized me and stepped forward

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out of their stall to say hello Richard

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how are you which was odd experience and

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almost like they were very pleased to

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see me now what is very interesting from

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my point of view is a lot of these

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people sort of regard me as an okay sort

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of skeptic oh I'm one of the nice

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skeptics not like those other mean

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skeptics and the other thing that made

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me laugh inside really was was that they

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told me that all they know that things

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like mind body spirit are they know

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there's dodgy people here people who are

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shanks or charlatans but and I just

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couldn't believe that it's it's

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interesting and I said to one of them

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well what are you going to do about it

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how you going to clean it up because

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they can't they can't go around accusing

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other people of being chunks or

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charlatans but this is one thing that I

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found very interesting and I've seen

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this before there's a lot of people in

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the New Age industry think very little

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of lots of other people in the New Age

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industry so they're quite willing to

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believe that their own magical powers if

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they're an astrologer or they think they

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are a psychic or whatever the case may

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be but quite often

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they are less than charitable to their

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fellow new ages regarding some of them

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as shocks very interesting we had the

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normal things like spirit drawing or

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someone will draw your spirit guide

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oddly enough they normally turned out

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looking like Native Americans there were

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people with a devices that could fix

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your sick building syndrome and bad

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energies and earth rays and things like

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that if you buy their special devices

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another one that interests me barefoot

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healing connect with the earth and heal

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it's going to be a gag in there

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somewhere put your heel to the earth and

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he'll discover earthing a remarkably

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simple safe and natural act of reducing

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pain stress and insomnia I see so you

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just walk around barefoot no I think

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they're selling you something you can

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put on your bed interesting that's a new

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one on me bare foot healing now i think

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i will probably chase up some of these

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people especially this one with the

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kinesiology i think that's worth chasing

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up by and by but again it's worthwhile

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anybody it's worthwhile going to the

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mind-body-spirit festival if there's one

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near you walking around picking up the

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brochures collecting them for study

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later and asking questions i I never get

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sick of it sometimes it's frustrating

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sometimes it's fascinating it's always

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worth a visit now it's almost time

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almost time for me to start packing my

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bags for Melbourne I'm flying down with

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Maynard that's going to be a lot of fun

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for the Australian skeptics national

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convention with james randi of course DJ

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Grothe rebecca watson brian thompson and

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so many great australian skeptics

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looking forward to this so much and

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don't forget there's a special

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fundraising dinner which will be on

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thursday the 29th of november now since

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are limited for this very intimate

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dinner only 30 tickets are available and

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i think they're selling fast it's going

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to be at the Royal Society of Victoria

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how you can have a private chat with

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James Randi with DJ Grothe with rebecca

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watson and lots of other people well

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worth going the fundraising dinner more

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information about this dinner if you

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haven't got your tickets yet visit www

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vic skeptics wordpress com and look for

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the link for special fund raising dinner

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yes to your steak and chew the fat with

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James Randi well for now I'm going to

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run downstairs have some nice some hmm

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curry chicken and rice and maybe a

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papadum and I'll let you enjoy this

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here's Maynard spooky action at the

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will we here at the huge big meet and

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greet that's going on as a part of that

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Tam and who we got here I am liddell

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Drescher I know what's your reason for

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being here well I came with my grandson

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and my daughter-in-law and this is my

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second time and I enjoy it I'm very much

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a skeptic and I really learn a lot when

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I come here well what was the big thing

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you learned at last year's conference

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well actually stay away from brian

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dunning that would be the first thing

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well that was that was my number one but

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I really enjoyed meeting Randy and I had

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a lot of fun I really enjoyed richard

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dawkins because i've read his books and

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so that was one of the reasons I came so

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that was very important to me and what

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are you looking forward to going and

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seeing the most this year you're here

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rip roarin yeah your brains open in a

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skeptical way actually I'm looking

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forward to the panels I really like the

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panels and then my daughter-in-law does

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a workshop and I went to her workshop

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last year it was wonderful so of course

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I'm going again this year okay will you

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enjoy yourself thank you

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and of course you can't go too far

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without oh excuse me I'm just

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interrupting you with some random radio

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program here but dr. rate she's having a

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few drinks but I'm interested in talking

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to you too why were you strangely drawn

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to dr. H is it because everyone know

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she's dealing tonight nobody's paid by

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pig farmer my goodness me yeah no I'm a

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pharmacist so I'm just a person I'd like

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to meet so where's general let's talk

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about it up once the microphones off

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okay what what brings you to the

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skeptics meeting why you here at a

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skeptics meeting and do you really even

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identify as one ah yes definitely most

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definitely yeah someone has actually had

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some training in pharmacology I imagined

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you'd really be into homeopathy oh oh

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yes of course yes and flying pigs and

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grew doin all that other stuff candling

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oh yes and what's the kind of whoo that

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really gets your goat well here handling

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I mean it's hard it's sticky it'sit's

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would you know it's what have you ever

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given it a go oh of course all the time

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now I've actually done it and

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interestingly enough it was the day

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before I had to see ear nose and throat

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specialist he took one look in my ear an

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event what have you been doing to your

275
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ear and I said I didn't hear candle he

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said it looks like a smoky cave in there

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never do it again it looks like I Madame

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Tussauds I guess at the end it's all

279
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waxy is lovely

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very strange things and so well is it

281
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one particular workshop or for when

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you're looking forward to go into the

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most oh good question well it's a

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million-dollar question I mean in all

285
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honesty I want to see what Penn & Teller

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have to say they're controversial to me

287
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but they're interesting they're

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entertainers and you know they're really

289
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good at what they do and when you say

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controversial just mean because they're

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outspoken or because of their

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libertarian politics they're

293
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libertarians stuff it's only cuz it's a

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lot of skepticism generally doesn't mix

295
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with politics we tend to be more on the

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science side of things and they bring

297
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their politics I'd in toward any kind of

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rub some people the wrong way I think

299
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it's interesting but not really my thing

300
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but I mean I'm pretty much a scam

301
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champagne socialist really that's sort

302
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of the way I brand myself and

303
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libertarian I can see the appeal of it

304
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but for a lot of people it seems to be

305
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like an icky for rich people yeah I got

306
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it yeah I guess I agree I look I think

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it's fun because it's kind of really out

308
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there I'm generally I identify very

309
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centrist almost so I'm boring and I sit

310
00:13:35,110 --> 00:13:32,420
on the fence a lot so someone like that

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or yeah like a file bright like Anika

312
00:13:39,580 --> 00:13:36,530
socialist syndicates and malts and

313
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occultists very interesting yes yeah I'm

314
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look I'm glad you're able to say that

315
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word because i couldn't syndicated yeah

316
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anarcho-syndicalist there you go I'll

317
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just nod and say yeah what he said I

318
00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:50,420
will have a great time and you have some

319
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fun are you gonna be given pentel or a

320
00:13:57,249 --> 00:13:53,540
bit of stick

321
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define stink hey thank you very much

322
00:14:01,269 --> 00:13:58,820
thank you for your time thank you pookie

323
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action here for you look yet look we're

324
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currently experiencing some spooky

325
00:14:05,860 --> 00:14:04,070
action right now and I've met him the

326
00:14:07,389 --> 00:14:05,870
only man who sang so far that's going to

327
00:14:09,670 --> 00:14:07,399
drink in his hand you got some you got

328
00:14:13,329 --> 00:14:09,680
some liquid like a scrum chicken and

329
00:14:16,300 --> 00:14:13,339
watermelon yes the dinner of skeptic

330
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champion you're terrific and then

331
00:14:20,829 --> 00:14:18,709
calling the shots here well in fact that

332
00:14:22,509 --> 00:14:20,839
you are a skeptic zone listener I am

333
00:14:24,249 --> 00:14:22,519
indeed now what's your history of

334
00:14:26,860 --> 00:14:24,259
skeptics are enlisting and how did you

335
00:14:28,749 --> 00:14:26,870
find a skeptical podcast from Australia

336
00:14:31,569 --> 00:14:28,759
of all things you know I think I heard

337
00:14:34,809 --> 00:14:31,579
about it on the st you I tuned in and

338
00:14:38,019 --> 00:14:34,819
it's been great because i get to find

339
00:14:40,150 --> 00:14:38,029
how Australia is like America and how

340
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it's just a little bit different too so

341
00:14:45,490 --> 00:14:42,980
I listen every week I enjoy it now in

342
00:14:47,889 --> 00:14:45,500
what way is the skeptic zone different

343
00:14:50,139 --> 00:14:47,899
as a skeptic podcast is a particular

344
00:14:51,249 --> 00:14:50,149
Australian bent sense of humor character

345
00:14:52,569 --> 00:14:51,259
that comes through that you could

346
00:14:54,439 --> 00:14:52,579
describe as someone who's not in

347
00:14:56,780 --> 00:14:54,449
Australian

348
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you know that's a tough one for me not

349
00:15:01,040 --> 00:14:58,930
you kind of know what you like but you

350
00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:01,050
can't put it in words well you know I

351
00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:03,370
like hearing a different perspective on

352
00:15:06,900 --> 00:15:05,290
skeptical issues and I think you guys

353
00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:06,910
are doing a great job in some respects

354
00:15:10,710 --> 00:15:09,370
that that we're not doing here and I'd

355
00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:10,720
like to see some of the things you guys

356
00:15:14,939 --> 00:15:12,970
are doing applied over here in America I

357
00:15:16,170 --> 00:15:14,949
was just talking to some people earlier

358
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there and they had some interesting

359
00:15:19,319 --> 00:15:17,920
comments about the politics of penn &

360
00:15:20,879 --> 00:15:19,329
teller and the libertarianism and how

361
00:15:22,619 --> 00:15:20,889
that could be potentially controversial

362
00:15:24,269 --> 00:15:22,629
at a skeptics event you got an opinion

363
00:15:27,119 --> 00:15:24,279
on that at all sir well I've heard

364
00:15:28,799 --> 00:15:27,129
depends politics and I got to say that

365
00:15:32,150 --> 00:15:28,809
I'm not in agreement at all of his

366
00:15:34,769 --> 00:15:32,160
politics okay well that's good you know

367
00:15:36,329 --> 00:15:34,779
when I think it's a libertarian he would

368
00:15:37,980 --> 00:15:36,339
respect your right to disagree with him

369
00:15:40,350 --> 00:15:37,990
well of course and that's what's great

370
00:15:42,689 --> 00:15:40,360
about people everybody has their own

371
00:15:44,819 --> 00:15:42,699
opinion but we can agree to disagree and

372
00:15:45,900 --> 00:15:44,829
what is the 14 min workshop you would

373
00:15:48,629 --> 00:15:45,910
really want to rock while you're here

374
00:15:50,460 --> 00:15:48,639
this weekend good question okay I don't

375
00:15:51,689 --> 00:15:50,470
have them all in my mind yet I look by

376
00:15:54,150 --> 00:15:51,699
the hour to see what's coming up next

377
00:15:55,410 --> 00:15:54,160
look on behalf of the three or four

378
00:15:56,910 --> 00:15:55,420
other listeners to the skeptics earn

379
00:15:58,650 --> 00:15:56,920
we'd like to thank you for being a hores

380
00:15:59,879 --> 00:15:58,660
all give it a think that makes half a

381
00:16:01,919 --> 00:15:59,889
dozen now so thank you very much for

382
00:16:03,259 --> 00:16:01,929
listening and we enjoy your input I

383
00:16:06,239 --> 00:16:03,269
really appreciate it thank you Maynard

384
00:16:07,799 --> 00:16:06,249
well as we said we're in the huge party

385
00:16:09,660 --> 00:16:07,809
room and it's just like a scene from

386
00:16:11,369 --> 00:16:09,670
animal house if you could imagine the

387
00:16:12,540 --> 00:16:11,379
party scene it's just like that with a

388
00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:12,550
whole bunch of skeptics over there

389
00:16:16,410 --> 00:16:14,410
Randy's in the corner going off he's

390
00:16:18,540 --> 00:16:16,420
going nuts who we got here my name is

391
00:16:21,689 --> 00:16:18,550
Santa here and where you're from we're

392
00:16:22,980 --> 00:16:21,699
from our chintan DC and why are you here

393
00:16:25,499 --> 00:16:22,990
at a skeptics conference what really

394
00:16:28,019 --> 00:16:25,509
rings your bell about skepticism well I

395
00:16:29,879 --> 00:16:28,029
mean why am I skeptic I mean I'm not

396
00:16:34,499 --> 00:16:29,889
sure how to answer that question is just

397
00:16:36,419 --> 00:16:34,509
like I I identify myself with the same

398
00:16:39,269 --> 00:16:36,429
kind of thinking that people i'm sure

399
00:16:41,610 --> 00:16:39,279
here have and i started listening to

400
00:16:44,249 --> 00:16:41,620
skeptical podcast a few years ago and

401
00:16:46,919 --> 00:16:44,259
then put your favorite one well i think

402
00:16:48,749 --> 00:16:46,929
by i would have to choose a skeptic's

403
00:16:50,670 --> 00:16:48,759
guide to the universe's my favorite one

404
00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:50,680
i listened to many

405
00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:54,370
and sometimes too many that more than I

406
00:16:57,960 --> 00:16:56,410
have time to listen for but did you have

407
00:16:59,130 --> 00:16:57,970
a long commute in the morning so I got

408
00:17:01,170 --> 00:16:59,140
time to listen on the bus were in the

409
00:17:04,049 --> 00:17:01,180
car well fortunately and unfortunately

410
00:17:06,179 --> 00:17:04,059
no like I don't so fortunately because I

411
00:17:07,590 --> 00:17:06,189
that would be awful to it like that

412
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:07,600
means that I don't have a lot of time to

413
00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:09,730
be listening on in the car for our test

414
00:17:15,540 --> 00:17:11,890
but and what kind of woo makes you

415
00:17:18,410 --> 00:17:15,550
really angry a lot of it actually but

416
00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:18,420
one particular one would be I guess

417
00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:21,250
claims related to medicine because I

418
00:17:26,549 --> 00:17:23,890
feel that it's really unethical and sad

419
00:17:28,559 --> 00:17:26,559
that people are like deliberately taking

420
00:17:31,740 --> 00:17:28,569
advantage of other people's like by

421
00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:31,750
giving them false hope like and taking

422
00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:34,330
just their money and I mean I don't know

423
00:17:39,090 --> 00:17:36,450
it's really upsets me like when I hear

424
00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:39,100
so how do you go at work then when

425
00:17:42,900 --> 00:17:41,290
someone comes in with astrology or they

426
00:17:44,430 --> 00:17:42,910
go oh you've got to detoxify your body

427
00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:44,440
and that kind of thing do you keep your

428
00:17:48,030 --> 00:17:45,610
mouth shut or you have to say something

429
00:17:50,340 --> 00:17:48,040
I usually have to say something and

430
00:17:53,310 --> 00:17:50,350
sometimes that gets me into some trouble

431
00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:53,320
but like it's a fine line in the work

432
00:17:57,419 --> 00:17:55,570
environment isn't it yeah it is like a

433
00:17:59,240 --> 00:17:57,429
yeah because I don't want to get into

434
00:18:02,160 --> 00:17:59,250
trouble like I'm being accused of like

435
00:18:03,540 --> 00:18:02,170
like I don't know not being intolerant

436
00:18:05,549 --> 00:18:03,550
or not respecting their beliefs and

437
00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:05,559
that's also something that sometimes

438
00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:08,290
bothers me that sometimes I feel that by

439
00:18:13,980 --> 00:18:10,690
using the I don't know like the

440
00:18:15,930 --> 00:18:13,990
diversity car like they kind of expect

441
00:18:18,090 --> 00:18:15,940
people to just get a free pass of any

442
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:18,100
kind of plane that in some cases could

443
00:18:22,169 --> 00:18:20,650
be very harmful for example like and

444
00:18:25,860 --> 00:18:22,179
we're going back to the health claims

445
00:18:27,780 --> 00:18:25,870
like I mean for example some some people

446
00:18:29,669 --> 00:18:27,790
that don't vaccinate their kids like

447
00:18:32,970 --> 00:18:29,679
they could tell you well they're my case

448
00:18:34,269 --> 00:18:32,980
I decide how how what I do to them but I

449
00:18:36,729 --> 00:18:34,279
mean

450
00:18:39,159 --> 00:18:36,739
in some way if you try to get into that

451
00:18:40,409 --> 00:18:39,169
like you could be accused that into

452
00:18:43,779 --> 00:18:40,419
getting something that's not your

453
00:18:45,519 --> 00:18:43,789
business but on the other hand it's like

454
00:18:48,879 --> 00:18:45,529
if you're not doing anything you know

455
00:18:51,759 --> 00:18:48,889
that the kids are going to be harmed by

456
00:18:54,070 --> 00:18:51,769
the parents believe so being in the u.s.

457
00:18:57,639 --> 00:18:54,080
oh I mentioned that is it almost a First

458
00:18:59,919 --> 00:18:57,649
Amendment kind of thing or not well I

459
00:19:01,269 --> 00:18:59,929
guess it's not free speech but it's

460
00:19:03,789 --> 00:19:01,279
almost like you should have the right to

461
00:19:05,109 --> 00:19:03,799
be stupid is that what they say I guess

462
00:19:07,450 --> 00:19:05,119
that's what they're saying but there

463
00:19:09,159 --> 00:19:07,460
should be there should be a line we're

464
00:19:11,469 --> 00:19:09,169
like when they're causing some kind of

465
00:19:14,139 --> 00:19:11,479
harm to others I mean it's fine if you

466
00:19:15,609 --> 00:19:14,149
want to believe whatever kind of claim

467
00:19:17,169 --> 00:19:15,619
that you want relate to medicine but if

468
00:19:19,839 --> 00:19:17,179
you're putting the life of others at

469
00:19:21,700 --> 00:19:19,849
risk not only your sake I think

470
00:19:23,619 --> 00:19:21,710
something should be done about it and

471
00:19:25,979 --> 00:19:23,629
not just like say that you have to be

472
00:19:29,049 --> 00:19:25,989
respectful of any kind of claim whether

473
00:19:30,969 --> 00:19:29,059
that but someone and danger or not they

474
00:19:32,859 --> 00:19:30,979
and what are you looking forward to the

475
00:19:35,919 --> 00:19:32,869
most this weekend what are going to be

476
00:19:42,580 --> 00:19:39,190
well but we're like it's our first time

477
00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:42,590
actually here at time and like

478
00:19:45,820 --> 00:19:44,210
personally I'm very excited I've been

479
00:19:48,369 --> 00:19:45,830
looking forward to coming to town for

480
00:19:51,609 --> 00:19:48,379
like four years now and finally like we

481
00:19:53,799 --> 00:19:51,619
made it and we got the old workshop pass

482
00:19:56,169 --> 00:19:53,809
and like so we're attending all the

483
00:19:58,060 --> 00:19:56,179
workshops that we can and all the talks

484
00:19:59,289 --> 00:19:58,070
and I'm gonna let you go now because you

485
00:20:02,019 --> 00:19:59,299
got to get some sleep because it's a big

486
00:20:04,090 --> 00:20:02,029
day tomorrow yeah i mean i already am

487
00:20:05,830 --> 00:20:04,100
already resigned of to not getting any

488
00:20:07,779 --> 00:20:05,840
sleep until monday that we go back home

489
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:07,789
but if you have a good time and watch

490
00:20:11,769 --> 00:20:10,090
out for brian dunning okay thank you

491
00:20:14,619 --> 00:20:11,779
thank you very much for your time thank

492
00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:14,629
you look at you know whenever I'm in a

493
00:20:18,669 --> 00:20:16,490
room and there's someone wearing a fez

494
00:20:20,499 --> 00:20:18,679
with a tassel I'm always strangely

495
00:20:22,989 --> 00:20:20,509
attracted good evening sir what's your

496
00:20:24,549 --> 00:20:22,999
name Erin Karen and what's to go with

497
00:20:25,779 --> 00:20:24,559
the Fez is that a doctor who thing or

498
00:20:28,180 --> 00:20:25,789
you've just got this thing for smoking

499
00:20:30,759 --> 00:20:28,190
hookers oh it's the smoking hookers to

500
00:20:33,100 --> 00:20:30,769
be sure and a why you hear what are you

501
00:20:35,739 --> 00:20:33,110
into sir uh well I've always been a

502
00:20:38,230 --> 00:20:35,749
skeptic since I was around 13 or so and

503
00:20:41,230 --> 00:20:38,240
my friend Reedy so I turned me on to

504
00:20:43,779 --> 00:20:41,240
this convention this is my eighth one

505
00:20:45,549 --> 00:20:43,789
now now as someone like myself it was

506
00:20:47,499 --> 00:20:45,559
sort of much more recent to the whole

507
00:20:48,730 --> 00:20:47,509
skeptical movement to see James Randi

508
00:20:50,169 --> 00:20:48,740
come on stage and to see the reaction

509
00:20:52,180 --> 00:20:50,179
for the audience is always really

510
00:20:54,190 --> 00:20:52,190
interesting it's like wow casino James

511
00:20:55,810 --> 00:20:54,200
Randi is relatively new figure to me but

512
00:20:58,149 --> 00:20:55,820
everyone in the room he's a much-loved

513
00:21:01,119 --> 00:20:58,159
person oh absolutely he's a luminary i

514
00:21:02,830 --> 00:21:01,129
would say in this sort of thing he's up

515
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:02,840
there with Dawkins and Hitchens and all

516
00:21:05,710 --> 00:21:04,850
of that you want a magician as well are

517
00:21:08,940 --> 00:21:05,720
you because I would fit in with the

518
00:21:11,470 --> 00:21:08,950
whole Tommy Cooper fizzling no I'm not

519
00:21:13,899 --> 00:21:11,480
yeah yeah and there's a why is that your

520
00:21:14,950 --> 00:21:13,909
icon it's fairly unforgettable well it's

521
00:21:16,810 --> 00:21:14,960
one of those things when you're in a

522
00:21:19,090 --> 00:21:16,820
large group evil there's 1200 people

523
00:21:21,549 --> 00:21:19,100
here today it's hard to recognize

524
00:21:23,769 --> 00:21:21,559
someone from across the room so wearing

525
00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:23,779
a fez it's the way to do it that's for

526
00:21:27,789 --> 00:21:26,090
sure now have you gotta a website or a

527
00:21:29,379 --> 00:21:27,799
group that you run that we could get in

528
00:21:32,230 --> 00:21:29,389
till you soon to me like a guy who's got

529
00:21:35,710 --> 00:21:32,240
an agenda no I'm actually kind of

530
00:21:36,970 --> 00:21:35,720
freeform no agenda show hey absolutely

531
00:21:38,940 --> 00:21:36,980
okay we wouldn't thought I would have

532
00:21:43,060 --> 00:21:38,950
expected that of the skippy X conference

533
00:21:44,519 --> 00:21:43,070
someone has to do it I have a Bloody

534
00:21:46,389 --> 00:21:44,529
Mary and a vodka orange thank you

535
00:21:47,980 --> 00:21:46,399
because if you want to find out about

536
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:47,990
anything hello my name's may nod from

537
00:21:51,489 --> 00:21:49,730
the skeptics own podcast you come to the

538
00:21:53,169 --> 00:21:51,499
bar how are you sir good to meet you

539
00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:53,179
again we just talked a few minutes ago

540
00:21:57,430 --> 00:21:55,369
I'm very sorry I'm going around and ran

541
00:21:59,919 --> 00:21:57,440
around but and what is a skeptical drink

542
00:22:01,810 --> 00:21:59,929
is there such a thing I wish there was

543
00:22:03,639 --> 00:22:01,820
yeah I think if anything it's an

544
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:03,649
oxymoron I think the more you drink the

545
00:22:06,310 --> 00:22:05,090
less skeptical you'd become so I think

546
00:22:08,859 --> 00:22:06,320
by the end will be here talking about

547
00:22:09,909 --> 00:22:08,869
unicorns and uh you know homeopathy here

548
00:22:12,669 --> 00:22:09,919
well I think there's something in that

549
00:22:14,859 --> 00:22:12,679
for all of us thank you what a pic chat

550
00:22:15,999 --> 00:22:14,869
while we're here be sure Hey look you

551
00:22:17,950 --> 00:22:16,009
know I've been trying to avoid the

552
00:22:19,930 --> 00:22:17,960
Australian skeptics basically they tip

553
00:22:21,279 --> 00:22:19,940
very poorly and they usually don't shout

554
00:22:23,289 --> 00:22:21,289
here in America although I got to say

555
00:22:25,060 --> 00:22:23,299
it's been a long time since drinks have

556
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:25,070
been this cheap absolutely it's

557
00:22:27,700 --> 00:22:26,090
wonderful to be here with the cheap

558
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:27,710
American drinks yeah and the cheap off

559
00:22:31,749 --> 00:22:29,690
will be at er yeah well I'm not really

560
00:22:33,759 --> 00:22:31,759
be a guy but I mixed you know I'm you

561
00:22:36,129 --> 00:22:33,769
know it's amazingly how to but a couple

562
00:22:38,349 --> 00:22:36,139
of wines and some mixed drinks and eight

563
00:22:39,970 --> 00:22:38,359
bucks it's like man i'll go buy you a

564
00:22:42,249 --> 00:22:39,980
drink right now oh the bars closed ah

565
00:22:43,749 --> 00:22:42,259
what a shame that's a terrible thing now

566
00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:43,759
what are you look I mean you're part of

567
00:22:48,099 --> 00:22:46,129
the skeptical establishment so to speak

568
00:22:50,710 --> 00:22:48,109
you know you're basically the old guard

569
00:22:51,970 --> 00:22:50,720
how do you find this year's 10 but this

570
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:51,980
is actually the first on my Beach attack

571
00:22:56,889 --> 00:22:55,490
oh right you've been bad for a min

572
00:22:58,599 --> 00:22:56,899
finally they've heard about me and it's

573
00:23:00,310 --> 00:22:58,609
like I had to change my name to get in

574
00:23:02,109 --> 00:23:00,320
here actually change my identity is

575
00:23:03,909 --> 00:23:02,119
there different thrusts with the

576
00:23:04,989 --> 00:23:03,919
American skeptics and as compared to us

577
00:23:05,859 --> 00:23:04,999
I mean I've been talking to people and

578
00:23:07,450 --> 00:23:05,869
have been saying they love the

579
00:23:10,210 --> 00:23:07,460
Australian perspective

580
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:10,220
on skepticism and I know things a bit

581
00:23:14,049 --> 00:23:11,330
more intense here they love their

582
00:23:16,389 --> 00:23:14,059
lawyers here even more than we do and so

583
00:23:18,220 --> 00:23:16,399
what it but I seem to be getting a lot

584
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:18,230
of stuff about alternative medicine here

585
00:23:22,210 --> 00:23:19,970
which although it is a large part of

586
00:23:24,460 --> 00:23:22,220
what goes on in Australia we like to be

587
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:24,470
a lot more frivolous sometimes we do you

588
00:23:26,950 --> 00:23:25,730
think that's part of the hero

589
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:26,960
Australians actually we don't take

590
00:23:30,519 --> 00:23:29,450
everything seriously that's often some

591
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:30,529
people have actually labeled that is

592
00:23:33,639 --> 00:23:32,330
criticism against the Australian people

593
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:33,649
that say oh you you're too frivolous

594
00:23:36,370 --> 00:23:35,330
about this you're actually you're taking

595
00:23:39,279 --> 00:23:36,380
too much liberty and this is single

596
00:23:40,870 --> 00:23:39,289
that's what it needs doing in many cases

597
00:23:42,789 --> 00:23:40,880
that we actually sort of one people to

598
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:42,799
me yeah it made fun of in some cases

599
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:44,210
they're not necessarily the activex

600
00:23:48,370 --> 00:23:45,770
people people like that but often at the

601
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:48,380
other very very silly claims which are

602
00:23:51,370 --> 00:23:49,610
made which you sort of just same dance

603
00:23:53,019 --> 00:23:51,380
you know don't take it that seriously

604
00:23:58,600 --> 00:23:53,029
and then by the way what starsign oh you

605
00:24:02,570 --> 00:24:00,920
look at it's late night at the moment in

606
00:24:04,490 --> 00:24:02,580
fact i'm using the late night microphone

607
00:24:08,660 --> 00:24:04,500
and I've got my late night voice on we

608
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:08,670
have Bob hello hello and if hello hi now

609
00:24:11,630 --> 00:24:10,410
what those skeptics you they were come

610
00:24:14,570 --> 00:24:11,640
in many different colors and flavors

611
00:24:17,660 --> 00:24:14,580
what brought yourself to this conference

612
00:24:19,100 --> 00:24:17,670
about science and reason well work here

613
00:24:21,500 --> 00:24:19,110
in order to promote something that's not

614
00:24:24,670 --> 00:24:21,510
science we're here to promote the

615
00:24:27,740 --> 00:24:24,680
humanities we're going to be talking on

616
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:27,750
Saturday about the the role the critical

617
00:24:34,370 --> 00:24:29,610
thinking plays in the humanities so

618
00:24:39,140 --> 00:24:34,380
using sudo history to teach really good

619
00:24:43,910 --> 00:24:39,150
history and to let people know that we

620
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:43,920
are in the humanities using the same

621
00:24:47,590 --> 00:24:45,930
critical tools that people are using in

622
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:47,600
the sciences but to a different end I

623
00:24:52,370 --> 00:24:50,250
would an example they in correct me if

624
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:52,380
I'm wrong with it the ancient alien

625
00:24:56,180 --> 00:24:54,210
Theory promoting le s for promoting

626
00:24:59,660 --> 00:24:56,190
interest in archaeology absolutely you

627
00:25:01,850 --> 00:24:59,670
know there was very recently one of the

628
00:25:04,490 --> 00:25:01,860
episodes of the popular history channel

629
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:04,500
show ancient aliens I'm a big fan von

630
00:25:12,620 --> 00:25:08,490
Daniken yeah yeah one of them one of the

631
00:25:15,770 --> 00:25:12,630
shows was about how Leonardo da Vinci

632
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:15,780
may have been influenced by oh and you

633
00:25:22,190 --> 00:25:17,970
know it kind of diminishes the the

634
00:25:24,820 --> 00:25:22,200
achievements of the man and so and there

635
00:25:27,890 --> 00:25:24,830
are lots of appeals to ignorance that

636
00:25:30,050 --> 00:25:27,900
are only a very long bow there was no

637
00:25:32,660 --> 00:25:30,060
really there was no description from him

638
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:32,670
being taken up in anything yeah and but

639
00:25:35,510 --> 00:25:33,930
I was just saying they'll taking some

640
00:25:36,950 --> 00:25:35,520
things he said about God or something

641
00:25:38,300 --> 00:25:36,960
that evolutions bro check it out of

642
00:25:40,690 --> 00:25:38,310
context and you know and they're making

643
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:40,700
the same logical fallacies that you know

644
00:25:46,550 --> 00:25:43,530
you alt med people are making but

645
00:25:48,500 --> 00:25:46,560
they're they're outside of their area of

646
00:25:49,970 --> 00:25:48,510
expertise and wanted show that there are

647
00:25:52,730 --> 00:25:49,980
areas of expertise in the humanities

648
00:25:56,540 --> 00:25:52,740
where people are working I do a

649
00:25:58,670 --> 00:25:56,550
literature what's your field and how

650
00:26:00,490 --> 00:25:58,680
would you explain well I'm actually

651
00:26:04,510 --> 00:26:00,500
medievalist

652
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:04,520
so I well I'm interested when ancient

653
00:26:08,980 --> 00:26:06,650
aliens had talked about the Norse

654
00:26:10,810 --> 00:26:08,990
beliefs and thinking that that's aliens

655
00:26:12,220 --> 00:26:10,820
now I saw that ancient alien episode as

656
00:26:14,500 --> 00:26:12,230
well to they were drawing a longbow

657
00:26:18,940 --> 00:26:14,510
between burning them in a boat and a

658
00:26:23,020 --> 00:26:18,950
spaceship yeah drawing a line between

659
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:23,030
their funeral rites and a spaceship yeah

660
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:25,490
and I think it's pretty clear that it is

661
00:26:32,470 --> 00:26:29,530
in fact just a ship that goes on the sea

662
00:26:37,930 --> 00:26:32,480
or you bury it because you're your

663
00:26:39,820 --> 00:26:37,940
friend is dead yeah yeah yeah so it but

664
00:26:41,260 --> 00:26:39,830
it's such a wild show have you seen

665
00:26:42,370 --> 00:26:41,270
interested in people that would never

666
00:26:45,220 --> 00:26:42,380
normally be interesting that kind of

667
00:26:47,860 --> 00:26:45,230
stuff because it shows like this I you

668
00:26:49,390 --> 00:26:47,870
know not necessarily but I've seen a lot

669
00:26:51,700 --> 00:26:49,400
of people say I didn't know that you

670
00:26:54,970 --> 00:26:51,710
could study this stuff study this stuff

671
00:26:56,350 --> 00:26:54,980
seriously and that's really kind of nice

672
00:27:00,100 --> 00:26:56,360
because you can introduce them to all

673
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:00,110
sorts of tools critical tools and then

674
00:27:04,660 --> 00:27:02,330
actually like library tools and

675
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:04,670
databases that you know we're really

676
00:27:08,890 --> 00:27:06,770
good information lives and so that's

677
00:27:11,230 --> 00:27:08,900
that's very rewarding look I remember

678
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:11,240
there's a there's a podcast called

679
00:27:14,140 --> 00:27:12,890
mysterious universe in Australia it's

680
00:27:15,730 --> 00:27:14,150
quite a well-known mine very popular

681
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:15,740
here in America and I think they said

682
00:27:19,780 --> 00:27:17,690
jokingly one day that archaeology is the

683
00:27:21,790 --> 00:27:19,790
lowest rung of the science ladder or

684
00:27:23,590 --> 00:27:21,800
something of that effect now do you

685
00:27:25,420 --> 00:27:23,600
think that there's anything to that

686
00:27:27,430 --> 00:27:25,430
because I mean a lot of people might say

687
00:27:31,360 --> 00:27:27,440
dermatology is I mean you know well oh

688
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:31,370
boy that I don't know if you get any

689
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:33,890
lower than archaea or the lowest form of

690
00:27:37,300 --> 00:27:35,330
science oh then you get to the

691
00:27:39,610 --> 00:27:37,310
humanities I think that's I think it's

692
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:39,620
too close to being the humanities for

693
00:27:43,360 --> 00:27:41,690
some people and and that's that that's

694
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:43,370
kind of the problem and that's sort of

695
00:27:47,260 --> 00:27:45,410
what we want to correct is you know that

696
00:27:49,630 --> 00:27:47,270
we are doing real work we have real

697
00:27:52,570 --> 00:27:49,640
expertise and we really know our stuff

698
00:27:54,940 --> 00:27:52,580
and one day you will bow before us you

699
00:27:56,740 --> 00:27:54,950
freaking scientists not and please tell

700
00:27:58,390 --> 00:27:56,750
us how we can find out more what website

701
00:27:59,950 --> 00:27:58,400
and now we can engage you guys in

702
00:28:01,270 --> 00:27:59,960
discussions when you get all feisty like

703
00:28:02,340 --> 00:28:01,280
that people want to write dear

704
00:28:04,490 --> 00:28:02,350
absolutely

705
00:28:07,860 --> 00:28:04,500
we're at a skeptical humanities calm

706
00:28:09,330 --> 00:28:07,870
where we write about these topics okay

707
00:28:11,279 --> 00:28:09,340
and what's going to be the new one so

708
00:28:12,630 --> 00:28:11,289
what's on the new horizon we've seen the

709
00:28:15,120 --> 00:28:12,640
ancient alien ones is there a new

710
00:28:17,070 --> 00:28:15,130
anomaly that people can use to I mean

711
00:28:20,490 --> 00:28:17,080
that shipwreck is pretty spooky that's

712
00:28:23,130 --> 00:28:20,500
down there yeah yeah well one that's

713
00:28:26,299 --> 00:28:23,140
become surprisingly popular recently is

714
00:28:28,980 --> 00:28:26,309
a resurgence of Shakespeare deniers yeah

715
00:28:31,289 --> 00:28:28,990
that that people who think that the Earl

716
00:28:32,820 --> 00:28:31,299
of Oxford wrote Shakespeare we're

717
00:28:35,220 --> 00:28:32,830
actually pretty confident that that

718
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:35,230
Shakespeare was in fact that Shakespeare

719
00:28:39,169 --> 00:28:36,730
and and not somebody writing under

720
00:28:42,060 --> 00:28:39,179
another name or possibly a

721
00:28:43,500 --> 00:28:42,070
shape-shifting time-traveling alien who

722
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:43,510
also wrote The Canterbury Tales and

723
00:28:48,890 --> 00:28:45,730
Beowulf that's my theory there's a naive

724
00:28:53,279 --> 00:28:48,900
I love you if you're my kind of skeptic

725
00:29:01,340 --> 00:28:53,289
I'm David ok cool thanks guys thanks for

726
00:29:01,350 --> 00:29:09,440
in a world where the truth is a matter

727
00:29:09,450 --> 00:29:17,400
or messages are a scene for beyond

728
00:29:23,510 --> 00:29:20,730
and reason is sidelined for magical

729
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:26,090
only three men stand between the truth

730
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:29,090
and emotion martinus

731
00:29:34,550 --> 00:29:32,850
what date is it 787 thing this is

732
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:34,560
impressive if these are system present

733
00:29:38,930 --> 00:29:36,210
they're not their photographs of Chinese

734
00:29:41,330 --> 00:29:38,940
anthem it's not we are not well received

735
00:29:42,980 --> 00:29:41,340
is a good God we're fully don't discuss

736
00:29:44,870 --> 00:29:42,990
cryptozoology on the show very often

737
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:44,880
because we don't know anything about how

738
00:29:49,070 --> 00:29:47,370
the truth the price gets lower and lower

739
00:29:52,660 --> 00:29:49,080
and lower and then he hits a ceiling

740
00:29:57,920 --> 00:29:55,100
skeptic to the cave and Moses has gifted

741
00:30:05,000 --> 00:29:57,930
society find us on iTunes or you know

742
00:30:12,860 --> 00:30:05,010
don't now it's time for dr. Rachel

743
00:30:16,070 --> 00:30:12,870
reports with dr. Rachel Dunlop so here

744
00:30:17,510 --> 00:30:16,080
we are in Bondi Junction and this is a

745
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:17,520
night put on by the warp a Jewish

746
00:30:22,670 --> 00:30:20,370
Hospital in fact it's called QA debating

747
00:30:25,610 --> 00:30:22,680
the hot topics complementary medicine

748
00:30:29,570 --> 00:30:25,620
pure or quackery and taking the side for

749
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:29,580
science and noms is dr. AG notice dr.

750
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:31,050
Richard you didn't say taking the side

751
00:30:36,020 --> 00:30:34,290
for kira or quackery it's a kind of it's

752
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:36,030
a loaded sort of topic isn't it because

753
00:30:41,180 --> 00:30:37,890
it's kira or cranberry you know what you

754
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:41,190
know so tonight Rachel is it so like an

755
00:30:43,580 --> 00:30:42,690
open forum there's going to be a part of

756
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:43,590
people i'm going to be in the audience

757
00:30:48,530 --> 00:30:46,170
you and former president of a strain

758
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:48,540
skeptics dr. richard gordon will be

759
00:30:53,780 --> 00:30:51,930
presenting science and that sort of

760
00:30:56,750 --> 00:30:53,790
thinking and we've got some people from

761
00:30:59,030 --> 00:30:56,760
the alternative industry so to speak

762
00:31:00,670 --> 00:30:59,040
coming along to put the other point of

763
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:00,680
view i guess yeah we've got a

764
00:31:04,910 --> 00:31:03,690
cardiologist dr. jason kaplan he's a

765
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:04,920
physician and a practitioner of

766
00:31:08,390 --> 00:31:07,170
integrative cardiology which i think

767
00:31:10,340 --> 00:31:08,400
will be really interesting because i'm

768
00:31:12,710 --> 00:31:10,350
not really sure what's that pertains to

769
00:31:15,860 --> 00:31:12,720
I'm and Theresa Mitchell Patterson who's

770
00:31:18,650 --> 00:31:15,870
a naturopath I think there actually are

771
00:31:20,570 --> 00:31:18,660
teachers works out of the you clinic

772
00:31:25,070 --> 00:31:20,580
which in fact i think is identified dr.

773
00:31:26,690 --> 00:31:25,080
Karen Phelps so how did you come to be

774
00:31:29,690 --> 00:31:26,700
speaking here tonight into somebody I

775
00:31:31,550 --> 00:31:29,700
hear what you are doing or somebody just

776
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:31,560
probably saw me complaining about

777
00:31:35,990 --> 00:31:33,930
something on the internet and email me

778
00:31:38,150 --> 00:31:36,000
and said would you please be part of

779
00:31:38,700 --> 00:31:38,160
this so in fact I think you're on was

780
00:31:41,190 --> 00:31:38,710
asked to do

781
00:31:43,399 --> 00:31:41,200
as well but as some people would know by

782
00:31:45,539 --> 00:31:43,409
the time this goes out he's up north

783
00:31:46,830 --> 00:31:45,549
facility total eclipse of this week

784
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:46,840
we're going to see some of it here

785
00:31:50,279 --> 00:31:48,490
tomorrow in Sydney we get a partial all

786
00:31:52,649 --> 00:31:50,289
right yeah we get a 60 something percent

787
00:31:53,940 --> 00:31:52,659
yeah yeah yeah yeah so I don't know how

788
00:31:55,169 --> 00:31:53,950
they found me but I think it's going to

789
00:31:56,700 --> 00:31:55,179
be quite interesting we've just had a

790
00:31:58,169 --> 00:31:56,710
little bit of a debrief with Julie

791
00:31:59,159 --> 00:31:58,179
mccrossan about that topics we're going

792
00:32:01,889 --> 00:31:59,169
to cover and it's going to be a

793
00:32:03,029 --> 00:32:01,899
structure a bit like I'm a foreign

794
00:32:04,649 --> 00:32:03,039
really where the audience asked

795
00:32:06,899 --> 00:32:04,659
questions of us and we aren't answer

796
00:32:09,899 --> 00:32:06,909
questions so it's not just a it's a Q&A

797
00:32:11,549 --> 00:32:09,909
format if you like a bit like the queue

798
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:11,559
a program that Australians would be

799
00:32:15,269 --> 00:32:12,970
aware of so I think it's gonna you know

800
00:32:17,340 --> 00:32:15,279
it'll be quite interactive and the

801
00:32:19,740 --> 00:32:17,350
audience is probably going to be quite

802
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:19,750
of an older persuasion and some of them

803
00:32:24,269 --> 00:32:22,450
actually probably has probably using a

804
00:32:25,590 --> 00:32:24,279
lot of complementary medicine I mean

805
00:32:28,019 --> 00:32:25,600
let's face it forty seven percent of

806
00:32:29,399 --> 00:32:28,029
Australia's apparently do so it's quite

807
00:32:31,649 --> 00:32:29,409
likely that half of them will be using

808
00:32:33,870 --> 00:32:31,659
them remember so I'm hoping to get some

809
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:33,880
interesting questions about evidence and

810
00:32:40,470 --> 00:32:39,250
how how to how to pick I've had it how

811
00:32:43,260 --> 00:32:40,480
to make a decision about what is

812
00:32:44,789 --> 00:32:43,270
evidence-based versus what is not so i'm

813
00:32:46,409 --> 00:32:44,799
gonna be talking about things like my

814
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:46,419
ground places to find reliable evidence

815
00:32:50,730 --> 00:32:48,850
so I'd say the bottom of that spectrum

816
00:32:53,070 --> 00:32:50,740
would be a current affair or like you

817
00:32:54,260 --> 00:32:53,080
know the TV news yeah at the top of that

818
00:32:56,850 --> 00:32:54,270
would be the Cochrane Collaboration

819
00:32:58,740 --> 00:32:56,860
which is the meta analyses of scientific

820
00:32:59,880 --> 00:32:58,750
evidence and then in between there other

821
00:33:02,370 --> 00:32:59,890
things that you can do and just

822
00:33:03,510 --> 00:33:02,380
providing some tips about that so you

823
00:33:05,159 --> 00:33:03,520
know I don't really know how it's going

824
00:33:06,419 --> 00:33:05,169
to go because we're relying on the

825
00:33:08,610 --> 00:33:06,429
audience to ask questions that's

826
00:33:10,500 --> 00:33:08,620
interesting now since the skeptic zone

827
00:33:11,730 --> 00:33:10,510
audience heard from you last which has

828
00:33:13,710 --> 00:33:11,740
been a little while now you've been very

829
00:33:16,380 --> 00:33:13,720
busy haven't you not only that you've

830
00:33:19,409 --> 00:33:16,390
been off to the United States and you

831
00:33:22,230 --> 00:33:19,419
stated this health point no indicator I

832
00:33:25,019 --> 00:33:22,240
went to a conference in jaws and George

833
00:33:28,500 --> 00:33:25,029
which is in the bottom is in the south

834
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:28,510
west of Utah or even thought about 40

835
00:33:33,269 --> 00:33:31,450
minutes in from Arizona and we based

836
00:33:35,970 --> 00:33:33,279
ourselves at the south point yeah in

837
00:33:37,919 --> 00:33:35,980
Nevada for the first week because hey

838
00:33:38,490 --> 00:33:37,929
why not and why do I know if you know I

839
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:38,500
know

840
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:40,690
and it's cheap and it has crabby lakes

841
00:33:45,690 --> 00:33:42,010
and you know what I found out rich you

842
00:33:48,150 --> 00:33:45,700
know what I found on Thursday night they

843
00:33:50,580 --> 00:33:48,160
have a seafood buffet in the buffet yeah

844
00:33:53,130 --> 00:33:50,590
where they have crabby legs I don't know

845
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:53,140
seriously piles and piles of crab you

846
00:33:59,160 --> 00:33:56,410
lades and poor knees yeah and I think

847
00:34:00,810 --> 00:33:59,170
there was maybe oysters I can't remember

848
00:34:02,910 --> 00:34:00,820
exactly what else and that's all

849
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:02,920
included in the behind and if you have

850
00:34:08,460 --> 00:34:04,930
your self point card it is only like ten

851
00:34:11,460 --> 00:34:08,470
dollars can you imagine what I found

852
00:34:13,860 --> 00:34:11,470
that out what's this year I think I

853
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:13,870
arrived on the Friday so I would have

854
00:34:18,060 --> 00:34:16,330
heard its yes so straight i think it's

855
00:34:20,639 --> 00:34:18,070
thursday night it's efek or going to

856
00:34:22,169 --> 00:34:20,649
shoot them say 25 seriously you go in

857
00:34:24,810 --> 00:34:22,179
there and one of the bain-marie things

858
00:34:29,460 --> 00:34:24,820
is transformed into this stack of crappy

859
00:34:33,030 --> 00:34:29,470
lakes it's amazing and how's your new

860
00:34:34,980 --> 00:34:33,040
job going it's very busy and very very

861
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:34,990
interesting and very time consuming

862
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:37,210
which is why I've been otherwise

863
00:34:41,460 --> 00:34:39,370
occupied but from being on the zone

864
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:41,470
lately yeah that's all right we know

865
00:34:45,060 --> 00:34:42,850
that our reporters get very busy in

866
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:45,070
their personalized good news i'm glad

867
00:34:48,570 --> 00:34:46,330
that you're busy and doing good things

868
00:34:49,919 --> 00:34:48,580
and I think with our table here the

869
00:34:51,330 --> 00:34:49,929
Chinese restaurant is getting up this is

870
00:34:52,919 --> 00:34:51,340
not the normal think tank Chinese

871
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:52,929
restaurant wearing it quickly device in

872
00:34:56,909 --> 00:34:54,970
a different part of cygnus now but I

873
00:35:05,049 --> 00:34:56,919
guess the word is out we'll make our way

874
00:35:10,819 --> 00:35:08,089
so we're in the room now and hell is yet

875
00:35:13,009 --> 00:35:10,829
to begin but I'm so happy to see Jane

876
00:35:14,420 --> 00:35:13,019
been amoo in the audience hi John can I

877
00:35:17,690 --> 00:35:14,430
take his phone and hit him over the head

878
00:35:19,490 --> 00:35:17,700
with it yes you can you can get I've

879
00:35:21,380 --> 00:35:19,500
already had to do this choice your turn

880
00:35:23,089 --> 00:35:21,390
out Joe it's been a little while since

881
00:35:24,410 --> 00:35:23,099
the skipper's and audiences as certain

882
00:35:25,819 --> 00:35:24,420
caught up with you how you been going

883
00:35:28,039 --> 00:35:25,829
I'm excellent I just thought I'd a new

884
00:35:29,299 --> 00:35:28,049
job so are you how's that it's great

885
00:35:32,029 --> 00:35:29,309
i've only been there a few days but i'm

886
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:32,039
working clinical trials so it's a place

887
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:34,170
where my skeptical hat is very very

888
00:35:38,450 --> 00:35:35,970
important and i'm really looking forward

889
00:35:39,799 --> 00:35:38,460
to it so it's a wonderful new scientific

890
00:35:43,220 --> 00:35:39,809
world for me you're still in the same

891
00:35:45,079 --> 00:35:43,230
hospital only i heard yeah and that's

892
00:35:47,599 --> 00:35:45,089
quite it's a big advancement for you and

893
00:35:48,559 --> 00:35:47,609
a whole new fascinating area absolutely

894
00:35:51,019 --> 00:35:48,569
now I'm really looking forward to it

895
00:35:52,099 --> 00:35:51,029
it's really a chance to actually put

896
00:35:55,759 --> 00:35:52,109
into practice some of the things that

897
00:35:57,650 --> 00:35:55,769
I've learned as a casual skeptic and now

898
00:35:59,870 --> 00:35:57,660
can bring into my professional world and

899
00:36:01,400 --> 00:35:59,880
you know great aways and especially you

900
00:36:03,109 --> 00:36:01,410
know from a nursing point of view it's a

901
00:36:04,730 --> 00:36:03,119
wonderful area for nurses to be involved

902
00:36:06,410 --> 00:36:04,740
because we really are you know at the

903
00:36:08,450 --> 00:36:06,420
forefront of being involved in

904
00:36:10,700 --> 00:36:08,460
collecting data you know rigorous

905
00:36:11,990 --> 00:36:10,710
research and uninvolved with the

906
00:36:15,650 --> 00:36:12,000
population who are very very vulnerable

907
00:36:18,349 --> 00:36:15,660
to alternative therapies as well so it's

908
00:36:20,299 --> 00:36:18,359
a good sort of point to be kind of

909
00:36:21,890 --> 00:36:20,309
looking at how these things affect our

910
00:36:23,630 --> 00:36:21,900
patients but at the same time being

911
00:36:25,490 --> 00:36:23,640
involved in treatments which they're

912
00:36:28,279 --> 00:36:25,500
testing yeah yeah and hopefully

913
00:36:30,109 --> 00:36:28,289
providing great benefits to them so good

914
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:30,119
just here good to hear and good to see

915
00:36:34,130 --> 00:36:32,490
you here tonight and and we were just

916
00:36:37,430 --> 00:36:34,140
discussing over dinner early I mean

917
00:36:38,870 --> 00:36:37,440
before we were we were recording that we

918
00:36:40,730 --> 00:36:38,880
should do a think tank sir should we

919
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:40,740
show you your long-overdue mud sliding

920
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:42,930
one before I haven't we done we have to

921
00:36:47,210 --> 00:36:44,970
do everyone's busy and some people go

922
00:36:48,799 --> 00:36:47,220
overseas you know how it all right yeah

923
00:36:57,559 --> 00:36:48,809
aren't you a God flying out with

924
00:36:59,269 --> 00:36:57,569
something it was a matter Hortense well

925
00:37:01,480 --> 00:36:59,279
it's all over and we find ourselves in

926
00:37:04,220 --> 00:37:01,490
the train station here at Bondi Junction

927
00:37:05,990 --> 00:37:04,230
waiting to catch our train home dr. AG I

928
00:37:07,519 --> 00:37:06,000
think you did really well you and dr.

929
00:37:10,579 --> 00:37:07,529
Gordon were fabulous night how do you

930
00:37:12,410 --> 00:37:10,589
think it went um I think I went ok I

931
00:37:14,660 --> 00:37:12,420
think one of the problems I had with the

932
00:37:16,819 --> 00:37:14,670
format was that there were a panel of

933
00:37:21,650 --> 00:37:16,829
four people at the front and then we had

934
00:37:24,170 --> 00:37:21,660
an MC and a roving microphone so it was

935
00:37:26,210 --> 00:37:24,180
more like a Q&A sort of thing but it

936
00:37:27,710 --> 00:37:26,220
meant that whoever was on the panel who

937
00:37:30,769 --> 00:37:27,720
was addressed could put out information

938
00:37:33,019 --> 00:37:30,779
and whether that's misinformation or

939
00:37:35,749 --> 00:37:33,029
science-based information and then it

940
00:37:38,269 --> 00:37:35,759
went unchallenged so on the panel was

941
00:37:41,299 --> 00:37:38,279
myself an integrated cardiologist and

942
00:37:43,519 --> 00:37:41,309
natural path and GP that some Richard

943
00:37:45,109 --> 00:37:43,529
Gordon and when for example the

944
00:37:47,150 --> 00:37:45,119
naturopath said that homeopathy works

945
00:37:49,460 --> 00:37:47,160
because the British Medical Journal had

946
00:37:51,890 --> 00:37:49,470
an article that said it worked which all

947
00:37:53,749 --> 00:37:51,900
of us know is not the case that went

948
00:37:56,180 --> 00:37:53,759
unchallenged for a long time until it

949
00:37:57,829 --> 00:37:56,190
came back to us the rest of us on the

950
00:38:00,799 --> 00:37:57,839
panel being able to say actually that's

951
00:38:02,990 --> 00:38:00,809
not true yeah but in the meantime and

952
00:38:04,849 --> 00:38:03,000
information got out to people who maybe

953
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:04,859
had you know that was seating the ideas

954
00:38:08,900 --> 00:38:06,930
so I think it's dangerous to do that

955
00:38:10,490 --> 00:38:08,910
sort of format when we're talking about

956
00:38:12,170 --> 00:38:10,500
medical information and health

957
00:38:13,940 --> 00:38:12,180
information when we're just having a

958
00:38:16,009 --> 00:38:13,950
discussion about opinion based stuff

959
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:16,019
fine but evidence based stuff I don't

960
00:38:19,069 --> 00:38:17,130
think it's a good idea that it was

961
00:38:20,559 --> 00:38:19,079
interesting that the naturopath started

962
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:20,569
off with the argument for mounted

963
00:38:26,299 --> 00:38:24,690
antiquity I know oh my gosh I was an

964
00:38:28,069 --> 00:38:26,309
years old or something like this this

965
00:38:30,470 --> 00:38:28,079
isn't like you know she said 6,000 years

966
00:38:32,059 --> 00:38:30,480
old then she said 4,000 years old and I

967
00:38:34,609 --> 00:38:32,069
mean there was stuff bouncing off the

968
00:38:36,970 --> 00:38:34,619
off the out of the room like a pinball

969
00:38:40,009 --> 00:38:36,980
machine you know there was a guy saying

970
00:38:42,559 --> 00:38:40,019
it's dna-based the Santa Fe Institute

971
00:38:45,559 --> 00:38:42,569
Nobel Prize when it's like one guy one

972
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:45,569
guy one guy G medicine energy medicine

973
00:38:50,850 --> 00:38:48,210
physics DNA Santa Fe Institute Nobel

974
00:38:53,460 --> 00:38:50,860
Prize winners hair analysis was drugged

975
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:53,470
and then at the end of that comment he

976
00:38:57,690 --> 00:38:55,450
said and I'm I've written a book and

977
00:38:59,340 --> 00:38:57,700
this is my website and I'm an

978
00:39:01,110 --> 00:38:59,350
integrative practitioner and everyone

979
00:39:03,780 --> 00:39:01,120
even I could see from the stage everyone

980
00:39:06,210 --> 00:39:03,790
was going to her it's just a big ad for

981
00:39:08,610 --> 00:39:06,220
your clinic yeah um but there was

982
00:39:10,290 --> 00:39:08,620
certainly a low G wasn't easy ya know

983
00:39:11,820 --> 00:39:10,300
the aging she know what his website a

984
00:39:14,430 --> 00:39:11,830
quorum and what it is but I've been

985
00:39:15,750 --> 00:39:14,440
there before and as I think I think I'd

986
00:39:18,330 --> 00:39:15,760
have to double check I think it's about

987
00:39:20,250 --> 00:39:18,340
this activate your DNA stuff how you can

988
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:20,260
activate it to eight strands or seven

989
00:39:25,410 --> 00:39:22,930
strands or something like that it's that

990
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:25,420
kind of nonsense i think but that that

991
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:27,010
was what I objected to was that those

992
00:39:30,570 --> 00:39:28,810
logical fallacies could just get thrown

993
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:30,580
out there and weren't challenged

994
00:39:36,450 --> 00:39:34,450
immediately and I did speak to the emcee

995
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:36,460
at the end about that and she said I she

996
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:38,170
finds that if it's just a panel with

997
00:39:42,420 --> 00:39:40,570
four people and for Mike's the audience

998
00:39:44,090 --> 00:39:42,430
doesn't get enough time to talk and I

999
00:39:48,030 --> 00:39:44,100
disagree with that to an extent because

1000
00:39:50,130 --> 00:39:48,040
you still do get time but it's important

1001
00:39:51,780 --> 00:39:50,140
when you're talking about people saying

1002
00:39:54,030 --> 00:39:51,790
homeopathy works that someone could come

1003
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:54,040
straight in and say no it doesn't yeah I

1004
00:39:58,470 --> 00:39:55,810
absolutely agree but I do think the

1005
00:39:59,700 --> 00:39:58,480
whole evening was a good use of your

1006
00:40:01,830 --> 00:39:59,710
time I certainly learned some

1007
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:01,840
interesting things you and dr. Gordon

1008
00:40:05,070 --> 00:40:03,490
did very well and we had a few other

1009
00:40:06,990 --> 00:40:05,080
people in the audience who are now side

1010
00:40:08,670 --> 00:40:07,000
giant better mood very well Joe is

1011
00:40:10,110 --> 00:40:08,680
fantastic now I didn't realize this but

1012
00:40:11,700 --> 00:40:10,120
what actually I thought it was just

1013
00:40:14,250 --> 00:40:11,710
going to be four people on the panel but

1014
00:40:15,870 --> 00:40:14,260
what happened was a few people had sort

1015
00:40:17,700 --> 00:40:15,880
of been chosen from the audience to

1016
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:17,710
contribute to the debate as well so we

1017
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:20,290
had Joe who did at first the first sort

1018
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:23,170
of talk about rcts and clinical trials

1019
00:40:28,100 --> 00:40:24,850
and what that means in terms of evidence

1020
00:40:30,660 --> 00:40:28,110
and then we had a guy who's actually a

1021
00:40:33,540 --> 00:40:30,670
doctor a physician who specializes in

1022
00:40:36,090 --> 00:40:33,550
allergies and amenity and eminent

1023
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:36,100
immunogenic foods and stuff he was very

1024
00:40:39,540 --> 00:40:37,930
good he was really good because I'll

1025
00:40:40,590 --> 00:40:39,550
tell you about the main in a moment I

1026
00:40:43,380 --> 00:40:40,600
know you waiting to hear about this

1027
00:40:46,530 --> 00:40:43,390
Richard I am but then also on the other

1028
00:40:48,900 --> 00:40:46,540
side we had a medical practitioner who

1029
00:40:51,630 --> 00:40:48,910
went to India to do volunteer work as a

1030
00:40:52,450 --> 00:40:51,640
doctor and then found himself in a way I

1031
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:52,460
suppose

1032
00:40:58,140 --> 00:40:54,290
and then went back to study Arabic

1033
00:41:00,430 --> 00:40:58,150
medicine and a little about them

1034
00:41:02,710 --> 00:41:00,440
honestly I don't have a lot of time for

1035
00:41:06,630 --> 00:41:02,720
it yeah I think it's probably just above

1036
00:41:09,010 --> 00:41:06,640
homeopathy for me um it's basically a

1037
00:41:11,109 --> 00:41:09,020
relaxing fuel well no I mean it does

1038
00:41:13,060 --> 00:41:11,119
involve supplements and herbal remedies

1039
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:13,070
and I mean that and some listeners may

1040
00:41:17,740 --> 00:41:15,770
know that several years ago there was a

1041
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:17,750
big issue with our Vedic supplements

1042
00:41:20,980 --> 00:41:18,890
coming into Australia that were

1043
00:41:22,839 --> 00:41:20,990
contaminated with lead and heavy metals

1044
00:41:24,790 --> 00:41:22,849
your son remember that yeah so you know

1045
00:41:28,270 --> 00:41:24,800
home home relax but also get lead

1046
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:28,280
poisoning he was from the the program

1047
00:41:32,470 --> 00:41:30,170
side and then we had a chiropractor who

1048
00:41:36,010 --> 00:41:32,480
was in the program so emotional who I

1049
00:41:37,359 --> 00:41:36,020
would just like to point out was asked a

1050
00:41:39,730 --> 00:41:37,369
question from the audience which I

1051
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:39,740
thought was really quite quite amusing

1052
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:42,410
from my perspective the question was you

1053
00:41:46,720 --> 00:41:44,210
guys had pretty much just glorified

1054
00:41:47,980 --> 00:41:46,730
masters because I went to one and all I

1055
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:47,990
got was a master and he clicked his

1056
00:41:52,390 --> 00:41:50,330
fingers and said you better and this

1057
00:41:56,079 --> 00:41:52,400
chiropractor said that he's done a five

1058
00:41:57,820 --> 00:41:56,089
years master's degree that is wrong they

1059
00:42:00,460 --> 00:41:57,830
do three years of undergraduate training

1060
00:42:02,740 --> 00:42:00,470
and two years of a master's degree so

1061
00:42:04,270 --> 00:42:02,750
that is misleading to say that you have

1062
00:42:06,339 --> 00:42:04,280
five years of the Masters education

1063
00:42:08,950 --> 00:42:06,349
because I have two years not not five

1064
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:08,960
and I asked him point-blank does he

1065
00:42:13,720 --> 00:42:12,050
treat diseases mmm said no yeah I mean

1066
00:42:16,240 --> 00:42:13,730
Richard Gordon made a really good point

1067
00:42:18,550 --> 00:42:16,250
about because the whole point I guess of

1068
00:42:20,620 --> 00:42:18,560
the discussion eventually led around

1069
00:42:23,710 --> 00:42:20,630
here comes out right I came every we

1070
00:42:25,810 --> 00:42:23,720
have to continue this on the track here

1071
00:42:27,820 --> 00:42:25,820
it goes actually this is Sam really good

1072
00:42:29,710 --> 00:42:27,830
on the podkapova your folks there's a

1073
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:29,720
Sydney train coming to click this to

1074
00:42:36,390 --> 00:42:33,130
take us back to our respective suburbs

1075
00:42:39,660 --> 00:42:36,400
and here it comes right next to us on

1076
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:39,670
the platform as it happens

1077
00:42:44,170 --> 00:42:41,530
this is called theater of the mind it is

1078
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:44,180
no sir not for no good reason

1079
00:42:49,450 --> 00:42:46,490
stopping all this is exciting dr. Rachel

1080
00:42:55,510 --> 00:42:49,460
it's nobody has to get off first the

1081
00:43:02,380 --> 00:43:00,010
okay maybe we can walk down the platform

1082
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:02,390
a little bit it sounds like an

1083
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:03,530
old-fashioned steam train doesn't

1084
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:06,050
actually at Hogwarts right now and we're

1085
00:43:11,070 --> 00:43:08,090
about to get on the train we're going

1086
00:43:13,330 --> 00:43:11,080
through platform 13 in the quarter

1087
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:13,340
departs in six minutes it'll have time

1088
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:14,770
to finish the interview I penguins

1089
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:18,970
muscle just jump onto this carriage here

1090
00:43:23,830 --> 00:43:22,130
let's make our way down downstairs here

1091
00:43:32,290 --> 00:43:23,840
in this train all is this is exciting

1092
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:32,300
podcasting and it's just like just put

1093
00:43:36,100 --> 00:43:34,010
that chair across now this is in the mud

1094
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:36,110
cage this is a Sydney train and we were

1095
00:43:41,170 --> 00:43:38,810
just saying yeah Richard Gordon made the

1096
00:43:42,460 --> 00:43:41,180
point that somebody asked because

1097
00:43:43,810 --> 00:43:42,470
because the discussion really came

1098
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:43,820
around to integrative medicine and

1099
00:43:49,090 --> 00:43:46,930
whether we need to move towards

1100
00:43:50,110 --> 00:43:49,100
integrated medicine because chronic

1101
00:43:53,170 --> 00:43:50,120
disease is a problem there for

1102
00:43:54,940 --> 00:43:53,180
prevention needs to occur and somebody

1103
00:43:58,720 --> 00:43:54,950
made the point that Western doctors such

1104
00:44:01,720 --> 00:43:58,730
as Richard Gordon don't they just treat

1105
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:01,730
the symptoms oh this is a man truly

1106
00:44:04,870 --> 00:44:03,410
alternative medicine this I mean I'm

1107
00:44:08,170 --> 00:44:04,880
sure it's a logical fallacy of some

1108
00:44:09,610 --> 00:44:08,180
description but and Richard made the

1109
00:44:12,130 --> 00:44:09,620
point which i think is really pertinent

1110
00:44:13,930 --> 00:44:12,140
which was people don't come to see him

1111
00:44:16,300 --> 00:44:13,940
until they're sick yeah you know they

1112
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:16,310
don't turn up until they're seek so I

1113
00:44:20,830 --> 00:44:18,530
mean and even if they beforehand he'll

1114
00:44:23,620 --> 00:44:20,840
give them good advice and I don't follow

1115
00:44:25,660 --> 00:44:23,630
no because and I mean this is 19 and the

1116
00:44:28,780 --> 00:44:25,670
cardiologist kind of annoyed me in this

1117
00:44:30,370 --> 00:44:28,790
context because he said you know he he

1118
00:44:32,830 --> 00:44:30,380
used the analogy that he's at the bottom

1119
00:44:34,210 --> 00:44:32,840
of a cliff when the ambulance has

1120
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:34,220
arrived and someone's fallen off the

1121
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:35,450
cliff they've already had the heart

1122
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:37,130
attack at him saying you know we don't

1123
00:44:40,750 --> 00:44:39,290
know that people have heart problems

1124
00:44:43,210 --> 00:44:40,760
before they have a heart attack and no

1125
00:44:44,980 --> 00:44:43,220
we don't because we don't like we simply

1126
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:44,990
don't have ways of figuring that out you

1127
00:44:49,090 --> 00:44:47,570
know we have some very we have some

1128
00:44:51,310 --> 00:44:49,100
ultrasound now that we can take of

1129
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:51,320
people's veins in their arms yeah we can

1130
00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:54,650
do invasive techniques to look at their

1131
00:44:59,710 --> 00:44:56,690
arteries around their heart but we don't

1132
00:45:01,570 --> 00:44:59,720
have a biomarker to say you've got plots

1133
00:45:03,010 --> 00:45:01,580
in your arteries and you're at danger of

1134
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:03,020
having a heart attack or a stroke we

1135
00:45:06,430 --> 00:45:05,090
don't have a biomarker to say you're

1136
00:45:07,660 --> 00:45:06,440
going to have a plaque rupture that's

1137
00:45:09,590 --> 00:45:07,670
going to lodge in your brain and cause

1138
00:45:11,150 --> 00:45:09,600
you to die we don't have that

1139
00:45:12,350 --> 00:45:11,160
and integrative medicine is going to

1140
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:12,360
come up with that because they're not

1141
00:45:18,380 --> 00:45:15,210
doing enough research and so I mean he

1142
00:45:20,020 --> 00:45:18,390
he really enforced he you know that the

1143
00:45:22,250 --> 00:45:20,030
point that Richard was making was that

1144
00:45:24,350 --> 00:45:22,260
people don't do anything about that and

1145
00:45:26,510 --> 00:45:24,360
even when they do come and say I'm sick

1146
00:45:28,490 --> 00:45:26,520
it's often too late and they still don't

1147
00:45:30,710 --> 00:45:28,500
change the lifestyle yes you know and

1148
00:45:33,110 --> 00:45:30,720
that researchers out there then people

1149
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:33,120
don't recognize themselves they don't

1150
00:45:37,130 --> 00:45:35,610
understand relative risk that's not just

1151
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:37,140
for medicine and health it's for a lot

1152
00:45:41,270 --> 00:45:39,930
of things and they don't recognize that

1153
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:41,280
that is an issue for them it's always

1154
00:45:44,720 --> 00:45:42,570
going to happen to somebody else not to

1155
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:44,730
you that's a human nature thing yeah

1156
00:45:48,020 --> 00:45:46,410
that's not our integrative medicines

1157
00:45:49,690 --> 00:45:48,030
better than Western medicine I don't

1158
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:49,700
bullet I don't I'm not going to buy that

1159
00:45:55,070 --> 00:45:53,010
you heard it here first dr. raid she

1160
00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:55,080
passionate as ever it's good to see you

1161
00:45:58,250 --> 00:45:57,090
again dr. AG and I think we were saying

1162
00:45:59,720 --> 00:45:58,260
before but we'll do it we'll do a

1163
00:46:00,980 --> 00:45:59,730
think-tank pretty soon it's been a while

1164
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:00,990
we should do I think take but just

1165
00:46:04,430 --> 00:46:03,210
before we sign off I wanted to finish up

1166
00:46:07,300 --> 00:46:04,440
with them that's sort of the meme that

1167
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:07,310
started a little girl yes during the

1168
00:46:12,530 --> 00:46:11,010
presentation tonight so i was asked my

1169
00:46:14,810 --> 00:46:12,540
for my definition of complementary

1170
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:14,820
medicine and i said for controversial

1171
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:16,170
purposes and for the sake of discussion

1172
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:18,210
i will say that yes it was the famous to

1173
00:46:21,110 --> 00:46:19,770
mention quite that alternative medicine

1174
00:46:25,730 --> 00:46:21,120
that's been proven to work is called

1175
00:46:27,500 --> 00:46:25,740
medicine right and then the later on in

1176
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:27,510
the discussion the cardiologist was

1177
00:46:32,060 --> 00:46:30,330
asked if there was some particular type

1178
00:46:33,980 --> 00:46:32,070
of alternative medicine that he will

1179
00:46:36,770 --> 00:46:33,990
point-blank not recommend to his

1180
00:46:39,650 --> 00:46:36,780
patients and he could not answer that

1181
00:46:42,620 --> 00:46:39,660
question so I shot my hand up and I said

1182
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:42,630
without a doubt homeopathy it doesn't

1183
00:46:47,180 --> 00:46:44,970
work it's been proven these just

1184
00:46:49,700 --> 00:46:47,190
baseless it breaks all the rules of

1185
00:46:52,180 --> 00:46:49,710
science biology physics everything and I

1186
00:46:54,740 --> 00:46:52,190
roughly explained how it works and then

1187
00:46:57,140 --> 00:46:54,750
doesn't work or is you know reported to

1188
00:46:59,780 --> 00:46:57,150
work and then someone got up at the back

1189
00:47:02,570 --> 00:46:59,790
and got a bit cranky with me and then

1190
00:47:04,290 --> 00:47:02,580
the MC said also what you're saying is

1191
00:47:11,770 --> 00:47:04,300
that

1192
00:47:14,650 --> 00:47:11,780
apple red bird signum while i create

1193
00:47:17,109 --> 00:47:14,660
from del condor hurstville Pinterest

1194
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:17,119
board elgyn le ahead all stations to

1195
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:19,130
Piniella well it's not a buzzer Mountain

1196
00:47:26,500 --> 00:47:24,650
the train and first to first yeah so the

1197
00:47:28,690 --> 00:47:26,510
MC picked up on that idea and she called

1198
00:47:30,130 --> 00:47:28,700
it buncombe she's also just saying it as

1199
00:47:32,380 --> 00:47:30,140
she as she said so you're saying it's

1200
00:47:34,420 --> 00:47:32,390
bunkum yeah and a few people got their

1201
00:47:38,020 --> 00:47:34,430
knickers in a knot about that but anyway

1202
00:47:40,300 --> 00:47:38,030
then later on down the track Richard

1203
00:47:43,150 --> 00:47:40,310
Gordon backed me up and he said I also

1204
00:47:45,070 --> 00:47:43,160
think it's welcome and then the guy who

1205
00:47:46,660 --> 00:47:45,080
was from you said whose allergy

1206
00:47:48,849 --> 00:47:46,670
specialist he got up and said I also

1207
00:47:52,900 --> 00:47:48,859
think it's fun community so at the end

1208
00:47:55,180 --> 00:47:52,910
of the proceedings the MCS said to me so

1209
00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:55,190
you know maybe you shouldn't use words

1210
00:47:59,590 --> 00:47:56,930
like buncombe maybe that's a bit mean

1211
00:48:00,609 --> 00:47:59,600
and I said well that was your word and

1212
00:48:02,950 --> 00:48:00,619
it doesn't change the fact that

1213
00:48:05,020 --> 00:48:02,960
homeopathy is buncombe so I think at

1214
00:48:07,930 --> 00:48:05,030
least I think at least people walked

1215
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:07,940
away from tonight with the idea in their

1216
00:48:12,849 --> 00:48:10,130
head that homeopathy is back Young they

1217
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:12,859
might not be exactly sure why or how but

1218
00:48:20,230 --> 00:48:16,570
they will remember that you heard heaven

1219
00:48:22,150 --> 00:48:20,240
thank you dr. agent thank you Richard it

1220
00:48:26,559 --> 00:48:22,160
was fun actually we should do this more

1221
00:48:36,890 --> 00:48:34,729
please dr. Rachel Dunlop is one of

1222
00:48:39,049 --> 00:48:36,900
Australia's foremost media commentators

1223
00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:39,059
in matters concerning so-called

1224
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:41,729
alternative medicine she has appeared on

1225
00:48:47,150 --> 00:48:44,249
national radio and national television

1226
00:48:51,739 --> 00:48:47,160
dr. H E is available for interviews and

1227
00:49:01,060 --> 00:48:51,749
you can contact her at Rachel at skeptic

1228
00:49:05,540 --> 00:49:04,160
I'm Eugenie Scott executive director of

1229
00:49:08,570 --> 00:49:05,550
the National Center for Science

1230
00:49:10,340 --> 00:49:08,580
Education in Oakland California we

1231
00:49:12,170 --> 00:49:10,350
defend and support the teaching of

1232
00:49:14,060 --> 00:49:12,180
evolution and climate change when it

1233
00:49:16,190 --> 00:49:14,070
comes under attack for religious and

1234
00:49:18,590 --> 00:49:16,200
political reasons we help teachers

1235
00:49:21,230 --> 00:49:18,600
parents school boards and other citizens

1236
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:21,240
defend good science in the schools come

1237
00:49:27,380 --> 00:49:24,570
visit us at NCS ecomme and on YouTube

1238
00:49:29,180 --> 00:49:27,390
and Facebook and let us know if science

1239
00:49:45,609 --> 00:49:29,190
comes under attack in your community

1240
00:49:49,490 --> 00:49:48,080
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1241
00:49:52,220 --> 00:49:49,500
zone now I just had a phone call from

1242
00:49:56,180 --> 00:49:52,230
Maynard during the skeptic zone how

1243
00:49:58,730 --> 00:49:56,190
about that and he's a suggested to me

1244
00:50:01,370 --> 00:49:58,740
that we should have a little think tank

1245
00:50:05,240 --> 00:50:01,380
meet up in Melbourne on the night of the

1246
00:50:07,310 --> 00:50:05,250
28th of November which is the day that

1247
00:50:09,590 --> 00:50:07,320
men are and i arrived in melbourne

1248
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:09,600
sounds good to me maybe we can find a

1249
00:50:14,090 --> 00:50:11,130
nice restaurant somewhere and have a

1250
00:50:15,710 --> 00:50:14,100
little sort of extra special meetup and

1251
00:50:19,250 --> 00:50:15,720
chat and maybe a think tank or something

1252
00:50:21,050 --> 00:50:19,260
like that oh I'll keep you posted or you

1253
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:21,060
can follow my twitter at skeptic zone

1254
00:50:23,990 --> 00:50:22,650
for more information so if you're in

1255
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:24,000
melbourne on the twenty-eighth the

1256
00:50:27,620 --> 00:50:26,130
november well let's see if we can get

1257
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:27,630
together and have a good old time with

1258
00:50:32,780 --> 00:50:30,210
Maynard and some friends let's see if we

1259
00:50:35,210 --> 00:50:32,790
can do that but until next week's show

1260
00:50:41,630 --> 00:50:35,220
this is Richard Saunders signing off

1261
00:50:44,900 --> 00:50:41,640
from Sydney Australia you've been

1262
00:50:49,460 --> 00:50:44,910
listening to the skeptic zone visit our

1263
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:49,470
website at www skeptics on TV for